蔡康永、焦雄屏对话《邵氏光影系列丛书》

邵氏光影系列丛书—《武侠．功夫片》、《古装．侠义．黄梅调》、《百美千娇》、《男儿本色》、《第三类型电影》《文艺、歌舞、轻喜剧》目前已经发行6本。http://www.douban.com/doulist/15922/
六十年代大陆正经历文革，台湾有着政治戒严，香港电影却趁此时，在邵氏和电懋两家电影公司倾力拍摄片厂电影下，拍片量在全球甚至仅次于美国，而有着「东方好莱坞」之称。到了七十年代，电懋衰败，直到七十年代末，嘉禾电影公司成立，成龙武打电影兴起，才结束邵氏独大的局面。
邵氏电影的历史，最明显的区隔是50年代末~~60年代中，李翰祥为代表所制作的黄梅调电影；60年代中以后由张彻所带领的武侠电影出现，至今武 侠电影、电视，都还是港台主要的拍摄题材之一，其中还出现了「楚原+古龙」的票房组合。现今扬名国际的大导演吴宇森，也是发迹于此时。
在过去半个世纪，邵氏出品了超过千部作品，邵氏的影片库也是全球最大的华语片库，其戏种多元，有史诗式宫闱巨片、浪漫喜剧片、动作悬疑片、黄梅调戏曲片，以至闻名中外的功夫武侠片，应有尽有，很多都是划时代的经典。
蔡康永邀请电影专家焦雄屏老师，为您详加剖析邵氏电影的特色及历史意义。
【满足影迷的收藏书】
蔡：热爱电影的人，对于一般人相对来讲，有的时候觉得他们很无聊，老是会收集一些旧东西，旧的海报、旧的剧照、旧杂志，旧书摊贩拿去一叠一叠卖 掉，秤斤论两地卖掉都不在意的，结果对一些喜欢的收藏的迷来讲，好象是如获至宝喔；如果可以不要那么费力气地去什么电影资料馆、电影图书馆这些地方去费尽 心力去翻寻，有人把它收集起来满足这一些电影迷的这份热情，我今天请了焦雄屏来陪我一起介绍这一套书。这套书要问说它有什么意义？是不是非出不可？如果消 失不见有没有关系？这都是我今天要问焦雄屏的问题，这套书它总名称叫做「卲氏光影系列」，最简单来讲就是邵氏电影公司的整个发展过程中间的所有电影名片以 及明星吗？
焦雄屏(以下简称焦)：对！它的介绍，它很多都是从以前的『南国电影杂志』直接拿下来的。
蔡：所以也就是说如果是四十年之后，有人把什么壹周刊里面的专访收集成书，差不多就那个状况吗？
焦：有人很专心在收集的话，四十年后也是会是个财宝…因为我们去跟人家买电懋的国际电影跟卲氏南国电影，都有人开价开到百万。
蔡：如果你对于这个「卲氏光影系列」怀抱着很高的…期待的水准的话，我必须要说明一下，比方说我手上拿的这本「千娇百媚」里面，当然都是女明星的 照片，比方钟楚红当然就是很漂亮的，可是如果要追究它的文字水准的话，钟楚红翻过一页来开始是它的内容，那我读给你听—「钟楚红具独立能力」这它的标 题，接下来副标题就是「星际钝胎俏娇娃」女主角，然后写的人叫做冬妮，然后她说「许多人都说钟楚红带点傲气，不易相处，我与她不算老友，谈话颇有默契，通 电话一谈就是一小时几乎无所不谈。」整个来讲就是个废话，绝对称不上有任何的写作水准可以值得收集成册，当时的这种电影画报里面的随便一段访谈嘛…
焦：那你要回归到那个年代嘛！你现在的要求是不是有点高？因为当时学电影的人不多，基本上都是一种闲话式的状态，可是我觉得它有彰显那时代，因 为我最近才去参加过一个香港的七十年代电影研讨会，是浸会大学办的，有一个文字研究题目非常有趣，叫「丹娜」就是以前的大胸部女王，因为用广东话念，我就 一直听到肉弹、肉弹，我就觉得很好笑！他讲丹娜肉弹的意义，在那个年代，她的身体怎么会被男性做为消费，还有她自己努力，后来我才知道丹娜其实是一个非常 聪慧的人，她是高学历，而现在做一个大企业家，她智商非常高，她完全是美国的珍曼斯菲的状态…他们就用各种方法来阅读丹娜现象，我觉得你就要回归那个时 代，回归到六○年代或七○年代，从文化现象去了解。
蔡：我当然对于这一套书的出版，觉得是…有出现比没有出现好太多了，能够容易说不要自己去翻资料影印，就拥有这么多漂亮的电影画报，尤其这些女明星，比方说这个郑佩佩以前的样子
，跟大家后来在「卧虎藏龙」看到碧眼狐狸是完全不一样的样子，那当初的这个玉女照片都是…你要去翻寻是颇费周章的喔，更不要说是后面这些很可爱的 访谈文字，当然没有什么严肃的内容，前面那些彩色照片很漂亮，有的时候看真是不得了，这一些对于很多影迷来讲，他就算不是热爱电影的人，都是他青春岁月的 美好记忆。纯粹就这个角度来讲的话，这套书当然是令人喜爱喔，可是我之所以一开始就要说明这套书的定位，就是我不太希望有人出于美丽的误解去买这个书，以 为是学术的著作，它其实比较像是收藏书，对不对？
焦：比较像香港常常出的一种杂艺跟艺究的关系那些书，香港出好多这种书，从明信片、照片、音乐的讨论，因为它就是一个非常讲究流行文化的一个地区，所以他们对于流行文化这种很campy的东西，他们有一种收藏癖，我觉得这比较像收藏癖的书。
【邵氏光影系列-功夫武侠片】
蔡：这一套书对你来讲，你是会很津津乐道的一直这样翻？
焦：不瞒你说，我看图片的时间超过我看那些文章，文章太影迷化了，但是看那图片，每一幅图片看明星，连武侠片那本也是非常有趣，因为我自己以前写 论文的时候，是写武侠功夫发展史，我们就觉得简直是真的匪夷所思，像一对中国跟日本的新婚夫妻，竟然互相拿出自己的国家的武器出来比赛说谁的流星镖比较厉 害、谁的十字镖比较厉害，还有「冷血十三鹰」，我这次在坎城的时候碰到昆汀塔伦提诺，他就跟我说他多么热爱这部电影「冷血十三鹰」，他真的没有找到世界上 有一个人可以跟他说，然后两个就讲很久…他说他要重拍这个电影，因为他看了张艺谋的「英雄」，他就觉得都可以拍「英雄」跟「十面埋伏」，他一定可以重拍 「冷血十三鹰」，「冷血十三鹰」真的是很过瘾的一部电影；邵氏的武侠片在那时真的充满了很多的活力…
蔡：你的意思是说在我们看起来其实都长得差不多的这些功夫片、武打片，在你看起来其实大有高下之别？
焦：当然有！比如说刘家良的电影，我觉得是好得不了的…卲氏这一批的武侠片里面都非常有energy，里面要从去细看，它有非常多不同的创作 者，比如说刘家良很讲究武德，讲究传承，还有他喜欢强调「止戈」就是偃戈止武，用和平的方法对待反战，虽然知道这些技巧，但是不常用，是要来救世的，他有 那个传统，因为他是真正武术的世家出生，他一路追上去是到黄飞鸿的根源；张彻就完全另外一国，完全是毁灭性的，然后要成就一个非常campy的英雄形象， 所以说「盘肠大战」对他来讲是个美感，一个男的已经战到那个肠子都流出来，还要战到最后一分钟，死的时候用站的死，不可以倒在地上死，因为毁了他的英雄形 象，像这一类的电影，去看它，它其实内部是有分别的。
【邵氏-东方的好莱坞】
蔡：这一套书能不能够完全代表卲氏？
焦：因为它还有三本没有出，现在就先三本，但是至少我觉得在文字资料上头，可以提供非常多非常直接的第一手资料，我只能这样说；因为邵氏电懋这些 电影的讨论现在蛮多的，香港电影资料馆，出一本也是邵氏电影的，可是那个文字完全是学术论文，那它的状况就不一样，照片就可能就没有好看。…要研究的 话，它只是素材，要变成一个文化现象，需要自己去研究，所以这些是材料，自己再想办法变出来或者是艺究。
蔡：你可不可以解释一下，邵氏在华人电影里面的意义？邵氏肯定是最有资格被出成这种收藏书的一个时期，对不对？
焦：我觉得电懋也可以，两大并行的公司，电懋因为在香港影史是比较特别的…我觉得是中共跟台湾这两边长期的国共内战以后中间的一个歪型产物，它就 是一个扭曲性的产物，夹在这两大政权中间，以台湾跟东南亚为市场，他们属于右派系统的存在，替当年离开大陆的这一批人流放的情结，提供了另外一种逃避的一 个天堂…邵氏后来转型，不能一直拍过去四十年代、五十年代的大陆景象，不能老拍古装、黄梅调这些，于是它开始转换，在整个东南亚还有整个亚洲华人电影的兴 起中，占了一个非常重要的一个位置，它到七十年代八十年代后，一直在做整个亚洲工业界的头，它的电影可以行销到整个…大亚洲去，包括我想后来胡金铨，还有 张彻的崛起，他们这些武侠片能外销到韩国，如果现在问到初安民–印刻杂志的总编辑，他每次都说王羽在韩国吃拉面不要钱，走红的程度绝对是像现在可能裴勇 俊来台湾，吃东西也不要钱同样的状况，卲氏它在整个工业界本身，也在历史上头，占有非常重要的位置。
【周星驰不是天上掉下来】
蔡：为什么有的时候我们觉得对一个事情感兴趣的话，对它的来龙去脉知道一点，比较不容易那么受限制；比方说很多人看了周星驰，就会以为他是天上掉 下来的喔，那就不知道他前面有哪一些其它的谐星路线，就以为说周星驰实在是天才到一个地步，全部是他自己发明出来的喔！那如果翻我手上的这一套「邵氏光 影」，随便翻比方这一部电影是我从来没有看过，可是光是只看了这一张剧照，就是有一个扮成公鸡在跟一个蜈蚣对打嘛，那立刻就让我想到徐克后来拍黄飞鸿的时 候公鸡跟蜈蚣的对打，这一类在整个武术电影，也就是说可能整个黄飞鸿最早的黑白片时候开始一系列下来，不是我们想象中说那些电影拍得好的华人，都是天纵英 明到说此刻一觉醒来就拍出了这么多惊人的画面，他们大概也是从小被养出了这个眼界…
焦：整个香港电影的传承，还一直可以追溯到四○年代的上海。所以像这些东西你去研究的时候，常常到最后是恍然大悟，那从四十年代再去研究的话， 还追溯到好莱坞，追溯到卓别林都会有…好莱坞其实很多电影是被上海人抄过去，香港人又抄上海，所以就是你到最后才会发现有恍然大悟的乐趣，所以后来再 看到昆汀塔伦提诺他们重新来跟香港电影借东西，就又绕回来了，而且他们观点不一样，比如说他会觉得周星驰，他跟我说他觉得周星驰是一个完全被误用的演员， 他说香港都没有注意到他会是一个最好的serious严肃电影的演员，我说我完全同意你，因为其实最早看到的周星驰，是中时晚报电影奖颁给他一个特奖，他 演一个警察界的卧底小鬼头，然后坏得要命，被打得一塌糊涂，所以我觉得看周星驰，他不应是现在插科打诨的一个形象，他有他严肃的一面。
蔡：如果说读这些书因此就启发了你对于所谓艺术史或电影史这些东西比较有感情一点，觉得不必然是讨厌的课堂上教授逼你念的一本无聊的书，而是了 解到说每一个文明不管是噱头比较多的像电影，或者是比较严肃的艺术，发展的过程都是有来历，这个认知会让你觉得文明的累积是有点意思的。我手上拿的这一套 书在某一些特定的地点将来是可以买得到…以前台湾的人真的比较少机会接触到卲氏最精华的时代的这一些好玩的电影，不过要很有耐心才行，因为就像我刚刚 读给你听的，里面的访问文字其实不一定那么具有阅读的价值，那如果去买很多邵氏的所谓黄金时代的DVD来看，也要有心理准备就是可能会看到以前很可笑的片 段，可是有时候也会遇到沙子里面的金矿，会觉得很有趣。

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This entry was posted on 星期五, 02月 5th, 2010 at 10:23 上午 and is filed under 转帖. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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