库斯图里卡：我的强大来自于我的虚弱

李洋：您拍摄《生活是个奇迹》的想法是从何而来的？
库斯图里卡：最初来自于1995年，一场波斯尼亚和塞尔维亚之间的冲突，我叔叔给我了的一个令人难以置信的故事：在战争期间，一个人为了他在监狱中的儿子能获得释放，他绑架了一个女人，想试图用这个女人交换他的儿子，但是最后他爱上了这个女人。所以，起初《生活是个奇迹》来自一个真实的故事，但很明显，我修改了其中的很多原素，因为我对直接的复制生活不感兴趣，因此，在我的电影中，主人公变成了修铁路的，他的儿子是个足球运动员，这与真实的故事完全不同。总的来说，我想说明生活是能够抵制战争的一个精彩的证明。在前南斯拉夫，有几年时间里，所有的人都非常真诚地维护和平，可是后来，所有的人又都处在另一种状态下，他们开始互相攻击并且最终四分五裂，这就是我所要表现的：曾有这样一个时代，它离我们并不遥远，我们曾是唯一的集体，之后，分歧来了，变成了地狱。但是，在混乱中，在这种明显的无法解释的另人大失所望的世界里，爱情却能使我们重生。

李洋：这部电影拍了多长时间？
库斯图里卡：差不多14个个月吧，我们要在一个地方等上四个季节来拍不同的外景，我觉得目前我能把握住一部长片电影的拍摄节奏，过去的片子也差不多都用了这样的时间。

李洋：从剧情简介上来看，《生活是个奇迹》似乎是一部怀旧电影？
库斯图里卡：不，这是一部描写期待的电影，而是有一种“泛神论”意义上的期待，拥有我们应该对生活的本质抱有信心的意义。您知道，我们拍摄《生活是个奇迹》的地方，有一片欧洲独一无二的森林，这并不是偶然的，那里有三种不同的植被，正常来讲这些树是不可能长在一起的，但在这里他们却完美的共存着。那么，怎么样能更好的表现人们应该观察自然法则并从中获得启示？谁能拥有分开这些长在一起的不同的植被呢？这就是使我变得越来越“泛神主义”的原因。您可以信或者不信，但是您不能否认与自然的和谐相处会令您感到舒服，有责任感，当您观察到这种和谐与您的特殊境遇之间竟有如此陌生并相似的关联时，您就会对自己说：生活是精彩的，不仅仅是精彩的，而且，它是一个奇迹⋯⋯

李洋: 《生活是个奇迹》这个电影名字是从哪里来的？
库斯图里卡：今天科学如此进步，科学甚至能够解释一切：通过神经元的一些研究，就能解释我们的世界概念是怎样发生和工作的，这简直不可思意，等等。但是，总是有一些东西是不可解释的，来自于生活的神秘，而且恰恰是正是这种神秘的不可解释的东西能够创造所有的价值，是我们应该去发现的。我起这个题目《生活是个奇迹》，还因为在某种意义上是我对弗兰克·卡普拉（Frank Capra）电影《生活是美丽的》的某种应答。作为一个导演，我想重新考验一下好莱坞时代那些曾试图创造的理想生活的理念是否对我们的时代有效果。我讨厌今天的好莱坞化，因为它除了金钱和表现一些空泛的面孔之外，它什么也没有。但在卡普拉的年代，他们在真实的建立一种在20世纪的有影响力的核心观点：它试图解释一种缘自美好生活的理想主义精神。所以我选择了这个题目，也是一种表达我想回到这种已经失去的精神的方式。今天，如果您想对某人失望，那您就看看他还是不是个理想主义者。（笑）20年来，这种（电影精神的）质量却很少见，我愿意冒着某种愚蠢的危险，来再现一种理想主义。

李洋：1995年获得金棕榈的影片《地下》（Undergrunde）很受中国影迷的喜欢，9年之后，您了拍《亚利桑那之梦》和《黑猫白猫》，今天，您再拍《生活是个奇迹》，又是一部关于战争的电影，为什么会选择与9年前同样的题材？
库斯图里卡：总体说来，好莱坞电影对于现代电影来说，总是有效的，也就是说，将来的电影（指主流电影）会大于生活。现在，好莱坞电影主要在于一种“数量”，而我们的生活观念一点儿也没有改变，总是一些心理学、社会的或历史片的拍摄。我们可以说百分之九十的成人电影都为了销售而格式化生产的，电影不再像以前一样能提供某种回应艺术的观点。这些电影仅仅能让我们有很浅的触动，不再能激发出深层的反应。我们不赤裸裸地需要所有这些垃圾电影，当我们把它们放在一起来看的时候，就会发觉一种策略，一种有体系的策略，它在抓住并且阻止您的思想、情感和渴望，这些电影的制作就是在浪费您们的时间。幸运地是，还是有一些例外。昨天，我看了蒂姆·波顿的《大鱼》，我非常喜欢。我不说他的形式我是否喜欢，但是人们可以从一种深深的情感中摆脱出来。所有这些，没有好的故事和深的底蕴是拍不出来好影片的，这也是《生活是个奇迹》的故事吸引我的地方，它呈现了，无论任何人面对战争时都会有的广泛的情感反应，人们并不都只是表达一种单一的反应，它提供了一种超越南斯拉夫战争的更宏观的尺度。

李洋：如果没有战争，那么您今天的创作是不是会有些不同呢？我们想问，如果不拍摄战争，您会从事什么题材呢？
库斯图里卡：这个问题很难回答，但是我所接受的教育使我对世界上的事物非常敏感，使我能通过这个星球上发生的所有事情深入地参与。今天，如果在我的国家没有战争，我可能会在南美洲或者非洲拍摄一些电影，或者其他地方，这部重要，但我肯定能够找到一个使我参与进去的并能影响所有人的主题，我将寻找无论用什么方式来表达带有理想主义色彩的世界景象，我确信这个世界从来没有像今天这样艰辛，以至于大多数电影不能回答我们所需要的东西，在我看来，《天使爱米丽》的巨大成功，从他故事的本质和深度来讲，等于在重申德·西卡的新现实主义：有人就是想很简单的帮助别人⋯⋯。这说明，如果你触到了本质，公众自然会产生强烈的共鸣。

李洋：《生活是个奇迹》中谈论的似乎是爱情，您电影中很少见以爱情为主题的电影，能谈谈这部电影中的爱情故事吗？
库斯图里卡：是的，一直到现在，爱情都不是我电影的中心，这个题目也是让我最忧虑的一个：集体联欢式的形式和狂欢场面，我不知道是否有能力来拍摄这样的爱情。影片的第一部分，很多的场面都是很多人，等到第二部分才开始真正进入爱情故事，这就好像我已经延迟了主人公彼此的见面。我只是想拍摄两个人的电影吗？最后，我仅仅拍了一次，并且只依靠了一些风景，一些自然背景，但是非常成功，成功地拍摄了那些爱情故事的几个重要片段。这种胜利对我来说，毫无疑问，我已经成熟到能够拍摄一部关于爱情的长片。

李洋：我们总是能想起一些您习惯表现的画面，比如各种各样的动物，湖和小树林，一些难以置信的荒诞或超自然现象等等，这一次又是什么？
库斯图里卡：也没有什么特别的用意，也许你们发现的是你们感兴趣的生活的一部分。在《生活十个奇迹》里，有一头驴是最重要的，它真正地构成了这部影片的钥匙。我们向媒体发了那张驴子站在铁路上的明信片。我想，这样拍摄有点儿像费里尼，穿越并且再穿越，在远处有一辆摩托车，近处是一头正在耕地的驴，这是影片想表达但是没有直接讲明的一种直接的解释。其实我想坦白地说，我的强大来自于我的虚弱，和我表现出来的相比，从内部来讲，我离强大也还很远，只有电影才能让我不断的超越自己。

李洋：您对《生活是个奇迹》这部电影再次进入戛纳电影节有什么感受？
库斯图里卡：这当然非常重要，因为是戛纳令我成了名，这很明显，戛纳是赋予我很多东西的地方，从某种角度看，两个金棕榈已让我非常满足，这足以让我成为戛纳历史的一部分，令人难以置信。当然，如果《生活是个奇迹》能再次获奖我会感到非常幸运，如果它得不到奖，我也不会感到不幸，因为我已经在戛纳得到了很多。

李洋：在私人生活中您认识评委会主席昆汀·塔伦提诺吗？您对他的电影如何评价？
库斯图里卡：其实根本不认识，只是偶尔在公开场合遇到过一两次。在我的眼里，他不真属于好莱坞的体系，他自成一体。我对他的工作非常尊重，他的一些电影应该能在电影史上占有一个重要的位置。

李洋：自从您拍过《黑猫，白猫》之后，已经有六年没有再看见您的电影，据我所知，您又拍了一部《超八故事/Super 8 histries》，但却从未在欧洲国家上映过，您能简单介绍一下这部电影吗？
库斯图里卡：《超八故事》是一个特别的电影，是一部受到限制没有上映的纪录片。实际上，我也从事了这部电影的作曲，和我的乐队一起。我们在南美洲进行了长时间的巡回演出，我自己带了一个小的摄像机，一天一天地拍摄我们在那里的生活。当拍摄完成时，电影就被放在了箱子里，一直没有拿出来过。对我来说，这是一次突破，因为这是第一次，我完整地从事了电影以外的另一种活动。而且，到目前为止，这实现了我指导的每部电影都有让我去拍摄它们的百分之百的必要性。这有看上去点儿愚蠢。（笑）过去，我却不能这么做：我开始拍摄这部电影（指《超八故事》）的时候，一开始，我不知道它能把我带到哪里，他迫使我集中精力观察下去。摄像机也因此变成我生活的本质的一部分。如果你把摄像机从我的生活中拿开，那就剩不下什么东西了，只有家庭。我不说这是一种遗憾，但代价也不小。《超八故事》让我完全明白了，我有可能去拍摄一部“过去的电影”，在这种意义下，它使我在一定程度上往前走。其实，我一直非常钟爱音乐，但过去是在舞台上演出，在一些陌生的人面前，那是一种及其特别的经历。作为电影人，我们始终与公众保持着一种非常紧密的关系。当我们遇到观众的时候，比如说在电影节，与观众的交流是通过对话进行的，而在音乐会上则完全不同，词语是没什么用的，交流直接来自于情感的力量。好比在一个短片中，表演的每个画面都要位于屏幕的中心，在音乐会上，我可以看见并感受到大厅里的气氛，在所有人的脸上感受到那种感情，在刹那间，交流产生了，这是一种非常强烈的情感。

李洋：很多中国影迷想知道，在前斯拉夫战争期间您的生活是什么样的？您现在的生活是什么样的？
库斯图里卡：其实我一直生活在山里（山区），在离贝尔格莱德有三个小时车程的地方，距离我拍《生活是个奇迹》的地方不远，我在那儿建了一触自己的小村落，有25座小木屋，一条大街，一座教堂，一些商店，一个邮局，马上还将有一个生产干水果的工厂等等。这是我重新开始生活的一种办法，一种不让我因不能回到萨拉热窝终日痛苦的解脱，在我的故乡，我的老朋友们都反对我，他们根本就不想听我说话，在这个国家，时代把我们变得非常难以解释，而现在我有了我自己的村子，我在这里可以重新营建一个不受外界影响的家。这个村子叫什么我还不知道，工程要到今年九月份才能完功，我盘算着用一个我电影的名字来命名（记者猜测可能是和《地下》或者《蒙塔那摩》），因为我在那儿也建了一家电影院。（完）

2004年于戛纳

Posted in 电影, 转帖 |

This entry was posted on 星期三, 04月 27th, 2011 at 11:07 下午 and is filed under 电影, 转帖. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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